Is Etsy Ripping Off its Sellers? I, for One, Want My Money Back
Editor’s note: The opinions in this post do not reflect those of Crafting a Green World as a whole or other writers on the CAGW team.
It can be hard to be an indie crafter these days. Perhaps Oilily will steal your designs and resell them as cheap knock-offs, perhaps somebody will smear your name all over the Internet because you disagree about the usage of the word craftivism, perhaps someone else will comment on one of your blog posts and call you retarded because you object to wool felt.
And then, just when you’re feeling better about all of that, Etsy will steal some of your hard-earned money.
What’s up with that, Etsy?
Now, I understand that technology is complicated. And I understand that Internet Explorer, although it’s the standard browser that most people, especially the internet un-savvy (Hi, mom!), use, basically blows. And I understand that when Internet Explorer updates, or Bill Gates sneezes, or the stars misalign, web sites tend to go all to hell for a while until some other programmer writes a fix.
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So I wasn’t monumentally surprised to wake up on the morning of July 2 to find that the ad spot I’d paid for on Etsy, a Showcase link in the Supplies section, wasn’t clickable in Internet Explorer. Frustrated and irritated, sure, although not at Etsy (yet), but not all that surprised, either. I dutifully checked in with the Forum of other confused and frustrated sellers whose paid-for Showcase spots weren’t working, and sent in an email to Etsy customer service asking for a refund or a transfer to a Showcase spot on a different day, when the Showcase was working as intended.
And thus the day passed on. My ad spot received a click or two, from the Internet savvy shoppers who were using Firefox, or Safari, or whatever awesome browser some Internet savvy people choose, but the vast majority of shoppers, those who use Internet Explorer, were lost to me. Mid-day our Forum got an update from an Etsy admin that engineers would be working on a fix, but otherwise the day passed on.
After 6 pm, when all the shoppers who surf the Internet during breaks and lunch hour had gone home, I recieved the following email:
Hello Julie,
Thanks for your email. This bug is fixed and all of the items listed in the Showcase can
now be viewed. Etsy shoppers who visit the site use various browsers so the amount of
people not able to scroll was very limited.
Thanks for being a member of the Etsy community.
All the best,
Joe
Etsy Support
I immediately wrote Joe back to tell him why I still needed either a refund or a transfer of my ad spot, but Joe hasn’t gotten back to me yet.
My own little struggle with Etsy has brought to light, at least for me, a larger issue: to what extent do we, as sellers, trust such a large site like Etsy with our time and our money, and to what extend SHOULD we trust them?
When I bought my Showcase ad spot, I didn’t expect Etsy to provide me with a detailed contract about what, exactly, their responsibilities would be concerning my spot, because I trusted them. I trusted that they would show my ad exactly when they said they would, I trusted that the ad would be completely functional, and I trusted that Etsy’s status and reputation and success would bring enough shoppers to me to make my investment profitable for me.
Now, since that didn’t happen, I’m left with the vastly more troubling feeling that perhaps, as a seller, I can’t trust Etsy. I’ve been reading a lot about ArtFire lately, and one of the things that I’ve noticed very prominently in their own promotions are testimonials from sellers claiming that ArtFire has great customer service, geared specifically toward the sellers–emails are answered promptly, tweeted questions are answered promptly–is this a specific response to Etsy’s relationship to sellers that I haven’t noticed before because I have such a small shop and haven’t yet done a lot that would need interaction with Etsy’s customer service team?
Input, anybody?
***UPDATE: Etsy just sent me an email to tell me that I will get a refund for my Showcase spot after all, which makes me feel much better about both my tiny little situation and the overall status of indie crafters in the marketplace–green crafters are indie crafters, after all, and it’s important to know where we have a place and how we’re supported. Oh, AND my post earned itself a notification at the top that nobody else at CAGW should be assumed to stand behind the crazy that comes out of my mouth. The upholstery remnant applique onto an old vinyl record album that I’ve been working on all day, however? Crazy AND awesome.
It’s so interesting you’ve brought this up. I’ve been doing research the past couple of weeks on some alternatives to Etsy as well. Unlike many, I have not had technical problems with them, but I do feel “lost” in the hugeness of the site. Renewing products daily or almost daily is the only way to keep them in the public eye and every renewal cuts into the minimal profit I make on my items. I’ve been told by several people that they don’t like searching through Etsy because it’s just too big - too much.
I’ve been looking at Artfire (many say they get even fewer sales through Artfire, but mechanically it’s a much better system), Cafe Handmade, and 1000 Markets. I’d love to hear from people who have used these other services.
I am in very much the same boat. I’ve used ETSY off and on the past few years and have never been disappointed, but yet never enthusiastic either, about their services.
When I was selling consistently I never minded the fees (though I always seemed to make less at the end than I thought I would even trying to account for the fees and s&h etc.), but since the economy isn’t helping sales, and things have slowed down more than little I am finding it harder and harder to give them the upfront fees with no guarantee an item will sell ( I still don’t mind giving them a percentage AFTER, it just adds up alot with the listing fee, the selling fees, the paypla fees etc.)
I also find (like Aimee, that if you weren’t a big seller within the first few years ETSY launched that it is an uphill battle to get your shop noticed.)
I tried ShopHandmade then for awhule because they let you outline your own fees (even if that’s ZERO), and you can designate a particular charity to give the fees too when you sell…..but the site overall was harder to navigate and you can’t unlist things etc. so that did not fair much better and I left that account a few months ago.
All in all I am likely to begin running my own shop off my website (yet more html coding to teach myself) and using ETSY strictly to sell off clearance items. It won’t happen overnight, but since I really have to market my store full-time on my own anyway, I might as well reap all the profits.
I have a shop on Etsy (eco friendly jewelry, accessories & clothing), that I have now split in 2. The second shop is an experiment that I am trying out on ArtFire (handmade housewares & decor). Both are samsstuff. Etsy is huge & that ‘hugeness’ makes it difficult to deal with. Sellers that haven’t already made a mark become lost & buyers are overwhelmed by the volume of product. So far, I have had more views on ArtFire, but no sales. I’d be curious about the experiences of others in these & other markets.
I never will understand all the whining about explorer. Works fine for me. No more screwups than with other browsers I use.
Having said that, I am now using chrome just because it is faster.
I agree, ETSY should pay you back or give you another spot, that is just how good business is done. They should treat there artists better than that.
I have been looking into etsy latly. ArtFire sounds a little better though, and not just because it is free. It is nice that you do not need an account to buy things.
Right now we sell things at farmers markets and do fairly well, but have done better in parst years. So we are looking to brance out on to the web. Do you all have shops on all of these sites? Or do you think it is best to have either Etsy or Artfire (or another one) and put all your energy into that?
I just saw this from About.com about Artfire:
http://artsandcrafts.about.com/od/sellingonline/a/artfire.htm
Really at the very least Etsy should give you a free spot.
In essence, Etsy’s Terms of Use is that detailed contract. As much as we would love it to be about trust, it’s about legalities and making sure you read the fine print. I wouldn’t count on getting a refund or replacement based on these two clauses in their Terms of Use:
“ETSY, ETSY’S SUBSIDIARIES, OFFICERS, DIRECTORS, EMPLOYEES, AND ETSY’S SUPPLIERS PROVIDE ETSY’S WEB SITE AND SERVICES “AS IS” AND WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY OR CONDITION, EXPRESS, IMPLIED OR STATUTORY.”
“Etsy does not guarantee continuous, uninterrupted access to the Site, and operation of the Site may be interfered with by numerous factors outside Etsy’s control. ”
I have had the most success with DaWanda by far, but that has a lot to do with me being based in Germany. ArtFire is my favorite, but my views are almost non-existent there. Their staff welcome feedback from sellers and buyers and keep a public list of ongoing projects and their status. I am absolutely impressed with their transparency and the speed at which they fix problems.
I would be interested to hear comments from crafters that sell on groovycart.co.uk
below is a comment from the Knitz and Bitz shop, full comment here - http://knitzandbitz.blogspot.com/
“Feeling Groovy
I just wanted to let you all know about Groovycart, if you sell your things online.
As you know we offer our Blog yarn (The extra) at a special price through Groovycart. This just covers our materials. This is because you can open a shop for free and pay no listing fees. So we can actually reduce it for you. There is no expire date for listings either it, a fab little hosting site.
Groovycart lets you have 30 items (90 if you list clever) and you can have a maximum price of £50. No commision for selling, only on your paypal fees.
Of course you can upgrade for a charge to a silver or gold account which you pay for and then you have a greater flexibilty over pricing and quanities, But as a crafter I have never made enough things.
Sales, yes I have had a few on there. Groovycart was the first place I ever sold….”
It is a true shame that one interruption in service would cause you to post such a negative view of Etsy in general. First of all you agreed to the terms of use for the site. Second, Etsy did not intentionally take your money or cause a service interruption. Besides if clickability was the only issue you still got your image and shop name in the showcase. Even a novice Internet user can figure out how to type your shop name in the search field if they are really interested in your item. Lastly, I appreciate you want a sounding board for your woes, but this is not your personal blog. It is a place to promote green crafting, not to bash Etsy, one of the pioneers in the online indie crafting world, because of one personal experience.